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the oldest and strongest human emotion

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is fear

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and the oldest and strongest type of

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fear

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is trepidation of young men

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when we were children our parents told

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us that monsters didn't exist

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but we were sure that something was

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lurking under the bed or in the closet

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fear sees even if our eyes are closed

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welcome to the realm of the arcane

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my name is lon stripler

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join me as i examine unexplained

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creatures

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strange manifestations and remarkable

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realities

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imagine this next hour as a voyage of

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discovery to strange lands

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seeking not for new territory

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but for new knowledge of the

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supernatural

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come on board as we begin this adventure

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hey folks good evening and welcome to

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another episode of arcane radio i am

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your host lon strickler and i thank you

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for joining me here on the paranormal

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king of radio network

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listeners can show their support for

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arcane rodeo by becoming a patron

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simply go to phantomsomemonsters.com and

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click the podbean patron banner now

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before i introduce my guests i want to

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mention a series of events

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that have been occurring there has been

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a humanoid flap

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in the mount vernon ohio area in recent

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weeks now i recently received a report

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of a humanoid from the witness's

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daughter who contacted me

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now this is the third encounter in the

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past month and a half in the mount

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vernon area

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she states i am reaching out not as a

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hoax but to let you know that i received

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a phone call

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from my mom in mount vernon ohio

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recently telling me that she saw a

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figure of what appeared to be an alien

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coming one side of her basement and go

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out the other end of the basement

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she described this thing as being tall

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with long arms

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and she didn't see its face

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as you know as she watched it go from a

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side view but she did say that the head

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looked like

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the one in a picture she attached and it

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was from actually the picture i had from

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the last report

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which act looked like a tall gray

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i wish to have her identif identity

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anonymous

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please uh if you know and not to be

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contacted i thought you might be

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interested to know

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that there have been other sightings in

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the area my mom said she wasn't scared

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nor did she feel any danger from this

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presence

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and then i came in and left thank you

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now i'm attempting

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to gather more information on this

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sighting now like i mentioned before

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this is the third

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third encounter over the past month and

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a half now

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the other two setting reports came in

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through mufon

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and the the actual descriptions were

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very similar

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the one in particular

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which was the the second reported

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sighting though it was the first

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sighting

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out of the three

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came from a gentleman who stated that i

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was driving home on the third 31st of

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july 2018 at 1 43 a.m

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on ohio state route 13 north of mount

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vernon ohio

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a seven to eight foot tall skinny

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humanoid-like creature

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ran across the road out of a cornfield

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through across into a soybean field from

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east to west

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i noticed a creature in my headlights

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about to 75 foot away as i was traveling

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at a rate of 60 to

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55 to 60 miles per hour

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now as i came out of the corn field i

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immediately let off the accelerator i

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first think it was a deer

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and i hadn't seen the creature walk up

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right here like i said before was seven

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to eight foot in height tall slender

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body arms and legs small in diameter

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hands and feet looked oversized for the

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body proportion small neck

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with

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an oval elongated head

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being dark to tan

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light brown skin tone it had no body

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hair

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the creature slightly turned its head

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towards my vehicle's lights

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and then i could see the creatures black

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eyes and small mouth

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now it barely took two to three steps

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and it was across the road at a

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tremendous rate of speed

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i was in total shock and thought i'd

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check it out

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first of all and then thought of second

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but then i finally decided to

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make a report

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i lost sight of the entity due to the

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darkness i'm a 24-year usaf retired air

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crewman

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with top securities

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clearance

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now uh

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not to be totally bliss but would

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someone please advise me on what it was

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i may have seen

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well like i said before this was the

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original sighting

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another sighting was also reported to

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move on

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on the uh on august 17th

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very similar this was in the area of

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wolf run park

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and uh it was seen by headlights at uh

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in the woods

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so um i don't know what's going on in in

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mount vernon ohio

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but

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it seems quite unusual very unusual to

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get

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similar type reports like this

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in one area you know

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very similar to what i was getting in

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chicago back in 2017

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with the wing humanoids so i don't know

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if this is something that's going to

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continue

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and get as much information

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as possible and report it

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so let's get started tonight's guest

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mike cleland is a ufo researcher

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experiencer and author

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mike has written extensively on the

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subject of alien abduction synchronicity

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and

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with these elusive events that have been

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the foundation for his research

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his website hidden experience

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explores these events and their

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connections to the alien contact

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phenomenon

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this site

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excuse me also features over 200 hours

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of audio interviews with visionaries and

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experts examining the complexes

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complexities of the overall ufo

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experience

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mike's books the messengers

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owls synchronicity and ufo abductee and

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stories from the messengers al's ufos

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and deeper reality have been well

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received by the ufo researchers and

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enthusiasts

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just a second

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crap you there yes i am

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oh you can hear me okay good i just i'm

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sorry i took it i had to forgive me i

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had you on mute um

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yeah thing there and i've got my i just

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got a new phone here and i'm pushing the

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buttons wildly yes it's a delight to be

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here thanks so much

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now i don't know if you remember but we

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talked after the release of your first

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book

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uh i do remember that was that was an

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excellent interview i remember i i that

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was the first time we had ever talked

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right and uh

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you know

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can you tell the listeners how you

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became interested in subject mail

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well so it's i'm sure i told you on the

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last time but i'll try to make it quick

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here because that one um to tell the

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story correctly you know it takes a it

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takes a good long time

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uh i'm 56 now

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turn the clock back to 2006 which is 12

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years ago now

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right around this time of year in the

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autumn of 2006 i went camping with this

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friend

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and was someone i actually really hardly

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knew and while we were camping we saw

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three owls at sunset

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and you know that's

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that's not that's pretty unusual but you

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know that's not

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that unusual

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and then um we had only gone out for one

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night

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and these owls flew above us they flew

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around us they landed on branches near

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us they landed on the ground near us and

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then even when we laid down to go to

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sleep it was a beautiful night we just

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put our sleeping bags out under the

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stars and and these owls would swoop

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past our eyes

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and just blot out the stars for just a

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half a second they're very quiet it was

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incredibly cool

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um

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four days later we went out camping

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again i was at the time i was living in

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right near grand teton national park

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which is by yellowstone in uh i was

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living in idaho at the time

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and

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later at a completely different spot

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the sun was setting

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an owl flew

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flew by us another owl landed at a tree

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branch and another owl landed at our

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feet and this continued they just kind

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of hung out with us for what must have

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been uh

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you know 45 minutes it was probably

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about two hours the first time it was

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probably 45 minutes the second time but

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the second time they got really close

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now something i

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i mean they were close they were like

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landing you know

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quite right at their feet but very close

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it was seemed highly unusual

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and um

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at the time

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i remember this very clearly i had this

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thought in my head

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and i didn't i didn't say it to anyone

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at the time because it seemed a little

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ridiculous but i'm saying it now i had

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the thought in my head

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was this has something to do with the

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ufos

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it's a very clear sense of knowing it

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was almost like a voice in my head that

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was stating this has something to do

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with ufos i was looking at owls

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and a voice in my head said this has

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something to do with ufos so i

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so

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now leading up to that point i had a

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handful of experiences that sound very

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much like ufo contact and i knew it

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um i had experiences as a boy of missing

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time and close up ufo sighting

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and um and i even

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when i was 30

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i had i woke up in the middle of the

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night

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sat up in bed

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there was a bright light shining in the

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window i was living in maine at the time

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and it was winter time and there was a

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bright light shining in the window and i

287
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:27,120
sat up and looked out the window the way

288
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:28,240
the bed was positioned i could look

289
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:29,680
right out the window

290
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:31,040
and uh

291
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,040
there were five

292
00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:35,519
spindly skinny gray aliens walking

293
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:37,279
towards the house and they were backlit

294
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:38,800
by this big bright light and i heard

295
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:41,600
this voice in my head that said oh yes

296
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:43,120
they're here

297
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:45,040
now is the time to put your head on the

298
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:47,200
pillow and shut down

299
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:48,560
and that's exactly what i did and the

300
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:50,480
next morning i i dismissed it all as a

301
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,839
dream and never even bothered to look

302
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:53,680
and see if there were any footprints in

303
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:55,440
the snow

304
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:56,320
so

305
00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:57,519
now

306
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:59,600
those events and several other things

307
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,880
those are the three most telling events

308
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,959
i have a handful of other little things

309
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,320
that were odd

310
00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:06,160
um

311
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:08,480
had been kind of boiling

312
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:11,680
or coming to a simmer let's say and

313
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:14,640
and the teapot was gonna whistle and i

314
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:16,480
was this was at the point this was kind

315
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:20,000
of where i was at in about 2006. like i

316
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,800
knew

317
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,839
i was going to have to look into this

318
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:23,120
someday but i didn't want to i didn't

319
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:24,079
want to address it i didn't want to

320
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:25,440
think about it i did not want to go down

321
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:26,480
that road

322
00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:27,600
um

323
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:30,640
and the owls and that that that kind of

324
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:32,000
message i mean that's the title of the

325
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,399
book the messengers that message this

326
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:36,480
has something to do with ufos

327
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:38,320
kind of forced me

328
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:39,920
into looking into the experiences and i

329
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:41,200
started talking to people and other

330
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:42,720
researchers and researchers would

331
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,760
introduce me to people who had the

332
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:45,600
experience and one of the questions i

333
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,920
asked everyone

334
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:49,839
was

335
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,279
have you ever had any odd experiences

336
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,720
with owls

337
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:54,639
it's certainly not 100 of the people but

338
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:57,680
it's enough that uh that i started

339
00:12:01,269 --> 00:12:00,160
collecting these very very strange

340
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:01,279
stories

341
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:05,440
the that's the thread that runs through

342
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:06,880
both of those books you know one book's

343
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:08,800
about 400 pages and one book is getting

344
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:11,360
close to 300 pages so we're looking at

345
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:14,639
just a little bit under 700 pages

346
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:16,959
of owl stories

347
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:19,760
and that's a lot and so whatever's going

348
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:20,639
on

349
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:34,639
ufos and owls

350
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:36,800
do you believe you were chosen to

351
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:39,760
deliver this message

352
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,040
that is an excellent question now do i

353
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:44,800
well let's let me

354
00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:46,480
i it's hard to believe right because

355
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:49,200
that sounds i mean that sounds so

356
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:50,720
pompous in a way

357
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:52,959
what i can say

358
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:55,600
is it sure feels like

359
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:58,000
like things were orchestrated and staged

360
00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:00,320
in a way

361
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:02,320
i mean it seems like

362
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:03,839
somebody

363
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:06,399
was aligning the pieces on the grand

364
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,519
chessboard

365
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,680
and they were all aligned in a way that

366
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:10,560
these

367
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:12,160
stories

368
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,320
fell into my lap

369
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:16,720
in a in a perfect way

370
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,639
for these books to be created yeah so so

371
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:22,800
do i believe it

372
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,839
i i entertain the idea

373
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,519
and it sure feels like that but it's a

374
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:29,760
tough one to say do i believe it yeah so

375
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,800
um

376
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:32,959
was i picked was i chosen was it paul

377
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,680
pre-planned it sure feels like it was

378
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:37,440
orchestrated by

379
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:39,120
by some

380
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:40,399
some

381
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:43,920
you know looking down into this reality

382
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,240
somewhat someone that we can't perceive

383
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:48,560
and they pulled a lot of strings and and

384
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:51,760
made it happen so yes so that's my sense

385
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,120
there's no way to prove that obviously

386
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,120
but that's how it feels

387
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:57,360
well when you first started looking into

388
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:01,040
this app you had your experience in 2006

389
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:02,959
what were some of the early

390
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:05,600
reactions that you received

391
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,320
from people as far as their experiences

392
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:12,710
well the reaction i was getting was kind

393
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:13,839
of like you know this is really

394
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:15,199
interesting because i've had the same

395
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:16,480
thing too

396
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:18,000
and now that like i didn't invent the

397
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,760
connection between ufos and owls it was

398
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,199
out there you know what yeah weber wrote

399
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,760
about it in communion um bud hopkins

400
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,079
wrote about it uh and most so i will

401
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:28,800
show up as a screen memory in a lot of

402
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:31,680
ufo contact events right so the classic

403
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:35,120
kind of story would be um

404
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:36,320
you know if someone's driving home at

405
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,199
night they see a big owl in the road

406
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:41,839
and they think boy that's strange they

407
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:43,120
get all the way home and then instead of

408
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:44,959
home arriving home at midnight they

409
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,160
arrive at two in the morning and it

410
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:47,839
doesn't make any sense

411
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:49,360
and then perhaps one day they go through

412
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:50,399
hypnotic regression and the

413
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:53,199
hypnotherapist says describe this owl in

414
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:54,480
the road

415
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:56,480
and the person says the witness says

416
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,639
well the owl is skinny it's bald it has

417
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,240
big black eyes it's got a tight fitting

418
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:02,639
spacesuit on and i don't think that's at

419
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,639
all um the implication is that there's

420
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,800
some sort of screen projection some sort

421
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:08,639
of projected

422
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,320
hypnotic

423
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:12,160
vision that the people think they're

424
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,440
seeing an owl

425
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:15,279
and instead they're seeing

426
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:16,399
you know

427
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:17,920
uh or excuse me

428
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:20,000
and in in and it's they're what they're

429
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,360
they they think they're seeing an owl

430
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,680
but what's actually hidden is is a grey

431
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:26,000
alien right now that that's very common

432
00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:27,680
now it could also be a deer it could be

433
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:29,279
people see firemen on the side of the

434
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,839
road or they'll see um you know giant

435
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:33,120
squirrels there's all kinds of things

436
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:34,959
that show up in this but at the top of

437
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:37,759
the list is owls and deer

438
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,560
um

439
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,240
and so someone could certainly you know

440
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,399
but what i'm more concerned about in a

441
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:44,560
way with this research is the real owls

442
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,639
that seem to be showing up in connection

443
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,160
with with these stories and sometimes

444
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:50,639
it's hard to to piece those apart you

445
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:51,839
know now i actually you asked a

446
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:53,199
different question and i got off a

447
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,480
little off track what was the question

448
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,959
you asked

449
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,120
i can't forget what i had because

450
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,680
yeah i forget too yeah i uh no i i

451
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:03,839
wanted to know what the reaction was

452
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:05,360
from some of the earlier oh so the

453
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,880
reactions for the re with the reaction

454
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:08,880
was people were very

455
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,920
you know they were kind of like well

456
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,360
here's my owl story because i had a

457
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,800
website and i started putting a little

458
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,880
thing on my website and i was doing bl

459
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:16,399
podcasts and

460
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:17,920
um and right at the top of my thing it

461
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,240
says i want to hear your owl stories and

462
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:22,639
so i was actively seeking these owl

463
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:24,399
stories and i was getting them and they

464
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:26,800
were so the the one of the very first

465
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,519
ones i got which is very benign and

466
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:31,920
simple compared to how strange they get

467
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:32,720
um

468
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,639
this guy named derek and he's

469
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,560
he's camping in the desert with his

470
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:38,800
buddies and they're

471
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:39,920
lying there they've got a little

472
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:41,440
campfire going and they're looking up at

473
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:43,680
the stars and he's the first time ever

474
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:44,880
camped in the desert so he's kind of

475
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,800
blown away by how you know awesome the

476
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:47,920
stars are

477
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:50,399
and then um they look at the top of this

478
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:52,240
cactus and looking down at them is this

479
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:53,759
owl and they don't remember it landing

480
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:54,720
there

481
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:57,279
and and it's got this kind of you know

482
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:58,079
uh

483
00:17:01,829 --> 00:17:00,320
sinister vibe which is very commonly

484
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:01,839
reported everyone recognizes that you

485
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:03,440
sometimes you see an owl and a tree and

486
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,039
it's just a bird but it feels intense

487
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:10,000
and the owl flew off and moments later a

488
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,799
triangle-shaped ufo a craft a tiny

489
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,199
triangle-shaped craft flew directly over

490
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,280
them and then flew off and kind of

491
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:19,199
hugged the train and i and i sat with

492
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:20,319
him

493
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:21,760
and he worked very hard to sort of

494
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:23,919
articulate how this thing flew how it

495
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,760
actually hugged the the landscape um

496
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:29,120
and then we talked a little more and we

497
00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:30,640
talked a little more and kind of he told

498
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,440
me some more stories he told me some

499
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,240
stories that sounded suspiciously like

500
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:38,559
abduction stories right he had dreams

501
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:39,919
where he lifted it out of his bed and

502
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:42,080
floated through his wall his girlfriend

503
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:44,559
had uh you know she said well i kept my

504
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,679
eyes closed the other night because i

505
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,440
knew you weren't in the bed and i knew

506
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:49,039
but i had to keep my eyes closed what a

507
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:50,799
weird thing to say

508
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,760
you know so and then in among all this

509
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,960
he said oh and then i went to a

510
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,960
spiritual awakening

511
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,200
so there's all these like odd

512
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,360
you know life events that you know the

513
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,840
owl story is one thing

514
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:05,360
but in the ufo story but then there's

515
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:06,559
all these peripheries you know

516
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:08,960
peripheral things that you know imply

517
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,720
that he may have had like long-term

518
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:12,320
contact so

519
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,760
that what he's describing certainly

520
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:15,360
sounds like a real owl you know it

521
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,640
doesn't sound like a screen memory it

522
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:18,480
was owl's size that it flew away and it

523
00:18:21,669 --> 00:18:19,919
was just doing that something an owl

524
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,679
would do

525
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:23,280
um it certainly wasn't four foot tall

526
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:25,039
like people report the

527
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:27,440
the screen memory owls being so yeah so

528
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:29,600
this is this is hard to um

529
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:31,039
that was so yes so that was one of the

530
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:33,440
initial stories i got so um the people

531
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,960
were very eager to tell these stories

532
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:36,160
people like basically they had this

533
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,679
strange story that they that they had

534
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:39,600
never

535
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,679
uh attempted to make sense of and people

536
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,360
were coming to me like can you help me

537
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:45,440
make sense of these stories and it was

538
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,880
very difficult because i really had no

539
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,960
answers but i could

540
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,320
especially more recently as i've

541
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,480
collected more i could help with saying

542
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,320
like okay so this what you've reported

543
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:56,400
here shows up in other stories you're

544
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,840
not alone in this

545
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:59,520
and and i think there's a solace that

546
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,960
comes from that when i when i could say

547
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,880
that to folks

548
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:04,320
you know um

549
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:07,120
when your first book came out i and you

550
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:10,480
know we talked not long after that uh my

551
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:13,039
experience was seeing owls

552
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:15,280
and receiving references two hours

553
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,080
perceiving my wife's passing

554
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:19,919
and um

555
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:21,600
but after that now this is something we

556
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,360
had discussed yet

557
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,919
i had had two encounters with tall gray

558
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:27,760
beans

559
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:30,880
including a possible abduction

560
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,520
then not long after that i started

561
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,600
receiving the reports

562
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:37,600
of the winged humanoids in the chicago

563
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,640
area

564
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:40,799
and in which some of these beings were

565
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:44,240
actually described as lacusas or large

566
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:47,440
al like humanoids

567
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:48,720
so

568
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:51,679
i'm trying to figure if if this was all

569
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,440
connected somehow

570
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:55,360
you know this uh

571
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:58,080
this series of sightings in chicago

572
00:20:01,830 --> 00:19:59,360
which

573
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:01,840
at the at this point right now is over

574
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:03,760
70 sightings

575
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,120
uh

576
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:07,840
you know i don't know if i was chosen

577
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:08,960
somehow

578
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:11,679
to receive these reports it sure seems

579
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,120
that way

580
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,799
you know i

581
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:17,120
i i let me just interrupt i know more

582
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:18,320
like just what you're saying i'm kind of

583
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:20,159
nodding you're knowingly like yep yep

584
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:22,960
that sounds like so yes it's i i so i

585
00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:24,880
understand that feeling of like

586
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:26,799
wondering whether you know it was

587
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,520
orchestrated for for for your for you in

588
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:31,600
particular right

589
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:34,400
it sure does seem that way i mean uh

590
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:37,919
because it's it's interesting that

591
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,320
of course i i solicited

592
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,480
the sighting reports i put it out there

593
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:44,080
that you know something

594
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,559
was seen in the chicago area i wanted to

595
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:49,039
know about it and i was getting the

596
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,400
reports now my other colleague

597
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:54,320
emmanuel and i read he was also getting

598
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,520
reports

599
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,120
but it was

600
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:59,039
it was interesting that our small group

601
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:00,880
were getting all the reports now there

602
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:02,799
were a few early reports that came from

603
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:04,000
mufon

604
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,960
but uh you know beyond that

605
00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:08,400
and of course you know since some of

606
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:12,799
these settings were very related to owls

607
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:15,520
uh just got me thinking wow you know

608
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,960
something is definitely going on here

609
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:20,720
well and then there's so there's the the

610
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:23,600
owl man sightings from england from the

611
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,640
1970s mid 1970s and then there's even

612
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,200
the mothman sightings which are could

613
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,640
have i don't know i don't know how it

614
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:32,559
got the name mothman but it certainly

615
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,559
could have been just called owl man

616
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:36,400
because it sort of had that that sense

617
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,679
about it so um it sounds like mothman

618
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:41,679
and owlman from england are very similar

619
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:43,760
and it sounds like this chicago thing

620
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:45,679
could very much fall into that

621
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,559
um

622
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:48,960
you know that that kind of mothman-like

623
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:50,320
apparition

624
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:53,039
well you know i believed for some time

625
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:55,360
and even before all this happened in

626
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:57,760
chicago i believe for some time that the

627
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:00,960
mothman or similar wing humanoids

628
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,159
are summoned creatures by either

629
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:06,799
some type of strong spiritual presence

630
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:09,679
or even an otherworldly energy

631
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:11,840
you know that they may be guardians or

632
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:13,679
sentinels of some type

633
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:15,679
as opposed to being what many people

634
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,159
think the harbingers are important

635
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:20,559
of doom you know of course the story is

636
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,520
the the collapse of the silver bridge

637
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:25,200
was the result

638
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:26,640
of either

639
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:29,679
the sightings of the mothman are that it

640
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,400
was a harbinger

641
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:34,880
before the event

642
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,880
and you know it's come up before now now

643
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,559
i know the owl

644
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,960
as an archetype is

645
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,960
said to be

646
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,320
a uh

647
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:48,320
type of harbinger of

648
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:51,280
either death or some type of uh

649
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,720
you know

650
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,640
something bad going to happen in the

651
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,799
future of course a lot of the

652
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:58,880
the um

653
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:02,080
the native american

654
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:03,360
uh

655
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:05,840
tribes well throughout

656
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,679
believe this as well especially the

657
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,080
navajo i've talked to several people

658
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,320
in in the navajo nation who have talked

659
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:14,159
about this with me

660
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,039
um

661
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:17,520
do you think uh that

662
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,840
have you heard of anything that may

663
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:21,520
seem to think that it's some type of

664
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,039
harbinger other than a messenger

665
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,760
well that's certainly the folklore of it

666
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:29,679
right right so that's the folklore of it

667
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:31,120
especially but not everywhere right some

668
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:32,559
folklore is very different you know so

669
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:34,880
i'm up in upstate new york here and the

670
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:37,520
native american tribes around here have

671
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:38,799
a um

672
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:39,520
a

673
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:40,640
different

674
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:43,919
take on the owl it's much less a um

675
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,080
harbinger of doom and it could be

676
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:48,080
certainly seen as a sign now what i've

677
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:49,919
found and i haven't really i don't have

678
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,240
i've got a lot of reports about owls and

679
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,480
many of them involve you know associated

680
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:56,400
with death but it's usually the owl

681
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:58,720
showing up after the death right of

682
00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:01,200
someone and and um and it's almost

683
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,480
always

684
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:04,640
kind of life affirming for folks to be i

685
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,760
mean i have a i have a wonderful story

686
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:09,360
um i'm paraphrasing here a little bit

687
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:12,799
from memory a woman contacted me and she

688
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:13,919
um

689
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:16,320
there was a civic leader in a city in

690
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:17,520
florida

691
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:18,880
and he died

692
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,679
and they had a memorial in the city park

693
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,440
and he was kind of a beloved character

694
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:25,200
in the park in the town

695
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,960
and um

696
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:28,320
so a great number of people turned out

697
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,279
for this memorial now

698
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:33,760
it was nighttime and an owl

699
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,200
flew and sat on a lamppost in the middle

700
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,400
of the park

701
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:40,640
at this memorial and everyone saw it

702
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,840
everyone took pictures of it it was

703
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:43,520
interesting the woman was an author for

704
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:46,559
a she wrote a newspaper article and and

705
00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:47,760
she said you know like i mentioned the

706
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:49,360
owl but i couldn't really say what

707
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,600
really happened what happened was people

708
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:52,799
lined up

709
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:54,240
and talked to this owl and they

710
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:55,440
basically said i cannot remember the

711
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:57,440
fella's name um

712
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,320
you know like john thank you for for you

713
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:02,000
know it's really great that you came

714
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:04,080
back to say goodbye to everyone and then

715
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:05,919
people would basically walk up one one

716
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:08,480
at a time and say and talk to this owl

717
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:10,720
on a lamppost like it was their dead

718
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:12,000
friend

719
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:13,600
and say they said goodbye now this is

720
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:16,240
actually surprisingly common oh that's a

721
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:18,159
really strong example but you know so

722
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:19,679
people will talk to the owl as if it's

723
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:22,159
their dead relative and they find

724
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,600
peace from that

725
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:25,679
so those are the kinds of stories i'm

726
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,400
hearing um i am certain that there are

727
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,480
other stories where i'll show up before

728
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:32,159
someone died or at the same moment

729
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,200
that's actually something i've gotten

730
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,120
before where the owl hoots or something

731
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:36,880
like that and at the same moment that

732
00:25:39,909 --> 00:25:38,240
someone died the person died of

733
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,919
completely natural causes

734
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:41,200
but the owl

735
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,400
was a

736
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,880
a um was there at that moment

737
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,279
um i do know some i have some stories

738
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:49,600
where owls have shown up um shortly

739
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:51,600
before someone was

740
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:53,600
uh died in an accident so yes you could

741
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:54,640
certainly

742
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:57,360
take it at that the owl was a was a

743
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:01,039
was a like a important of laying bad but

744
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:02,880
i don't have many examples of that in my

745
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:04,640
records

746
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,960
yeah it just seems to me that you know

747
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:08,559
the wing being

748
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:12,240
in general has some type of connotation

749
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:13,600
of uh

750
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:15,760
foretelling something is going to happen

751
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,600
yeah i'm not necessarily saying

752
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,039
something bad

753
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:21,360
but that something is going to happen

754
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:23,039
yeah and i'm trying to think of that did

755
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:25,760
anything happen in the events around um

756
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:26,960
the

757
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:35,200
culmination of all of this and it's you

758
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:36,720
know uh

759
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:39,679
but um so i i um

760
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:45,190
if now here's the this is testable in a

761
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,320
way is something if something bad

762
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:48,720
happens in chicago then we we

763
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:49,919
you know

764
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,080
and i hope nothing does that happen and

765
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,760
believe me

766
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,360
i've had people you know it's

767
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:58,240
interesting when this started to happen

768
00:27:02,909 --> 00:27:00,320
um

769
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:02,919
it actually started back in march of

770
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:05,919
2017 and it was really gathering

771
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:08,159
momentum and and now

772
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:09,279
honestly

773
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:12,240
in july and august

774
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,440
i was receiving between 20 to 30 calls

775
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,640
per day

776
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:18,880
of people concerned

777
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:20,720
that something terrible was going to

778
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,480
happen in chicago people were frightened

779
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,120
it was it was the damnedest thing i was

780
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:29,520
you know and i'm trying to discount you

781
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,360
know the whole thing you know people

782
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:33,360
heard about the uh about the silver

783
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:35,520
bridge collapse and the mothman

784
00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:38,320
and that you know this was important of

785
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:40,159
death or whatever

786
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:43,440
and it was absolutely amazing how many

787
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:48,159
people were continuously calling me

788
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:50,080
and they have i mean honestly you know

789
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,919
that's that's the these are spooky

790
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,520
stories they have a right to be

791
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:55,200
frightened too so so that doesn't

792
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,799
surprise me and and that was my first

793
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:58,720
thought too was like oh no like what's

794
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:01,760
going on in chicago um but um nothing

795
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,520
has happened and and i think that these

796
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,320
things play out with this

797
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:07,840
you know

798
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,600
it's not written from the same script in

799
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:11,200
a way right this is you know you get

800
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:12,880
these things and it doesn't follow so

801
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:15,200
yes so i

802
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,960
and and the um

803
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,320
uh i know some i know have another

804
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,399
witness who saw something very similar

805
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,640
to the owl man he called it a mothman

806
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:25,039
and he was in england and he said

807
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,640
it was it it emanated this vibe of

808
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,440
something absolutely sinister like it

809
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,600
had a strange vibe to it like just

810
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,679
seeing it but it was he was overcome

811
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,840
with this sense of horror

812
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:39,679
and um and then he actually had a lot of

813
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:43,360
bad luck in his life after that right

814
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,279
yeah associated with these reports at

815
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,520
all like it's like a like a premonition

816
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,440
or a feeling of doom or anything like

817
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:51,600
that well you know i i did mention this

818
00:28:55,510 --> 00:28:54,000
to you the last time i talked to you

819
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,520
um

820
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,520
about a month after my wife passed away

821
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,520
my grandmother passed away

822
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:01,520
and my father was telling me the night

823
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,679
before she passed

824
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:05,520
he heard an owl

825
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,360
on the property

826
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:09,279
he had never heard ow all the years he

827
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:10,320
was living

828
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,520
he was almost 80 years old by then he

829
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:15,520
lived there all his life he had never

830
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,440
seen or heard an owl

831
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,360
but the night before she passed he heard

832
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,120
this owl

833
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:24,399
on in the tree next to his window

834
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:26,960
and woke him up and he he

835
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:28,640
didn't understand it and he told me

836
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:32,000
about it after her funeral i had no idea

837
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:33,039
about it

838
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,799
and i thought well that's a damnedest

839
00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:36,320
thing him bringing that up because i

840
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:38,799
never saying to him about you know all

841
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,520
the references to an owl before my wife

842
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:43,279
died

843
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:46,559
so there you go maybe that is what was i

844
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:48,000
don't know

845
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:49,600
yeah well that's certainly so that

846
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:51,200
matches what would be the and there's

847
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:52,320
lots of

848
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,559
lore about that i mean ireland you know

849
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,559
like the hooting of an owl right um out

850
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:58,480
the window means you know

851
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:00,240
but owls food all the time right so i

852
00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:01,919
mean but i and i live in a place right

853
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,679
here where this is where i'm up in

854
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:05,279
upstate new york and there's a lot owls

855
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:06,640
here and we live in the forest and

856
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,440
there's so we hear owls all the time

857
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,279
and in the and that's

858
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,279
but to highly unusual if you've never

859
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,120
heard one before and then the night

860
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:17,360
before your spouse passes that's very

861
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,919
very you know that's that's very telling

862
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:21,200
yeah

863
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,919
now in your new book you mentioned al

864
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:25,600
encounters in

865
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,679
wiltshire which is a county well known

866
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:29,520
for crop formations

867
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:31,919
do you believe that these messengers are

868
00:30:36,149 --> 00:30:35,039
connected to the formations

869
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:36,159
you know it's funny because i actually

870
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:39,520
have very few accounts of owls in in

871
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:41,279
crop circles right i thought it'd be

872
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:42,799
perfect doesn't sound perfect they

873
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,279
should be but yeah

874
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:46,799
yeah you would sure would and there's

875
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:49,360
actually the only so um

876
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,640
and the uh

877
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:52,399
uh the only story i really have actually

878
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:53,679
that's not true i have a couple i have a

879
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:56,559
couple and uh there's a fellow um who's

880
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:59,360
actually many people consider him a

881
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:01,360
they're skeptical of his claims and his

882
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:03,840
name is um robert van der hoeven i think

883
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:05,600
is his name and he's a dutch young dutch

884
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,159
guy and he had some events with owls

885
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,480
they were like driving uh so he's this

886
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,080
fellow uh

887
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:14,399
if his stories are to be believed um

888
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:16,000
robert van der hoken and i think he was

889
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:17,360
with

890
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,559
uh

891
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:19,919
scientists who are with him who are

892
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,559
basically you know or researchers who

893
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:24,080
are trying to like discredit him you

894
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:25,600
know who are there to

895
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:26,559
uh

896
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,000
you know if he was if he was hoaxing

897
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:30,640
something they were trying to catch him

898
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:32,080
so he they were driving at night and he

899
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:33,600
had this vision of a crop circle and he

900
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:34,640
said it's over here and they're driving

901
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:36,159
a night he said well like systems kind

902
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,399
of like he was trying to find it and and

903
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:40,320
as they were driving and i'll swooped

904
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,279
across

905
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,440
the road and they stopped the car and

906
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,960
they followed in the direction they all

907
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:46,559
had flown they walked we walked into the

908
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,440
field at night and and uh

909
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:52,000
and uh there was a crop circle there and

910
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:53,840
that's how they found it from an owl so

911
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,679
so yes there's you know there's a few

912
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:57,840
stories like that but not as many as i

913
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,080
had hoped for right the story that

914
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:02,320
begins the crop circle country stuff

915
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:03,120
there

916
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,640
that's a wonderful story that does

917
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,720
actually culminate in a crop circle and

918
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,640
begins with it with an owl and there's a

919
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:10,000
there's a

920
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:11,600
um

921
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:13,840
the people also their their husband and

922
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:15,840
wife team bert janssen and his wife

923
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:17,039
heather

924
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,559
floyd jakowski

925
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,480
are are um

926
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:22,240
driving at night they're running a tour

927
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:23,360
of

928
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:24,880
ancient sites in england it's

929
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,679
specifically not a crop circle tour

930
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,919
and they um

931
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,200
they

932
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:33,200
are driving home after having dinner and

933
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:34,159
they're about to meet the group they're

934
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,600
going to stonehenge the next morning

935
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:37,440
before dawn and they're driving at night

936
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:39,120
and they an owl crosses in front of

937
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,640
their windshield and they follow it down

938
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:42,799
the road and it leads them to a spot

939
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,240
then it leads them to another spot and

940
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,840
then

941
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,120
they're like how do we get here why do

942
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,760
we end up this spot and then

943
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:51,840
the fellow bert doesn't see it but his

944
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,640
wife sees what amounts to like the

945
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:57,279
hellhound like the hound of hell this

946
00:33:01,750 --> 00:33:00,960
giant dog monster lumbers out of the

947
00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:01,760
tall

948
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,840
you know crop on one side of the road

949
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,480
crosses the road in full vision for her

950
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:08,480
he doesn't see it

951
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:09,760
um and then it

952
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:12,399
and it walks into the forest or into the

953
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:14,080
crop on the other side of the road

954
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,279
um

955
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:17,039
so

956
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:18,720
and this this story is this is a

957
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:21,279
beautiful example of of how these

958
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:22,480
stories

959
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,880
they get very very complicated and you

960
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,320
must sense this too when you do this

961
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,559
research like these like these stories

962
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:30,880
seem to have like every thread you pull

963
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,760
on

964
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,000
seems to lead to some other strange

965
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:36,559
aspect of the story um and that's what

966
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:38,240
was difficult when i worked on the first

967
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:39,039
book

968
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,760
was the that that aspect of

969
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,440
uh how do you reign this stuff in you

970
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:44,960
know like i had to

971
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,960
make my point so you talk to someone on

972
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,399
the phone for six hours and they tell

973
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:49,840
you this amazing story

974
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:52,399
and then you would put in a paragraph

975
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:54,000
about their owl fighting and there was a

976
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:56,159
lot more there so that was my

977
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,919
and it broke my heart so that was the

978
00:34:02,149 --> 00:33:59,440
point of the second book was to tell

979
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:02,159
these longer more complex stories

980
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:03,679
and yet and there's so there's there's

981
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,039
some fleeting references to owls in crop

982
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:09,599
circles but not as much as i'd hoped

983
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,760
or i had suspected let's say i that just

984
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,200
seems like such a good fit but it

985
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,760
doesn't really play out that well

986
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:17,440
you know and this is one thing that's

987
00:34:22,629 --> 00:34:20,480
fascinated me over the recent years

988
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:22,639
as far as doing research into the

989
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:24,320
paranormal and

990
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:26,480
you know other

991
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,200
aspects of the supernatural and

992
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,679
because a lot of these phenomena seem to

993
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,599
be connected somehow

994
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,879
and uh

995
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:36,480
you know you talk about this

996
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:38,079
synchronicity

997
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,359
i can't even say i have time but uh

998
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:43,919
you know the relationship between

999
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:47,359
you say ufos owls and other phenomena i

1000
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:51,599
see it all the time i i and it's um

1001
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:54,159
you know it's surprising

1002
00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:57,200
sometimes frustrating but it happens

1003
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:59,520
and you know i talk about it with people

1004
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,920
all the time you know we see one thing

1005
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:03,520
then something else happens and it's

1006
00:35:07,589 --> 00:35:05,599
connected to something else

1007
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:07,599
and i think you found that out as well

1008
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:09,680
with one of the stories

1009
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:12,400
that you have the new book as far as

1010
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:19,190
and which but which story was that i'm

1011
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,320
just i don't know was it um

1012
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,960
it was either susan mcleod or denise

1013
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:26,480
lyndon oh yes of course of course yes

1014
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:28,000
susan macleod yes yes

1015
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:31,280
oh god yes that was so i'm forgive me it

1016
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,640
was i was just like wait a minute

1017
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,640
because i just i was

1018
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,960
i just i just read the entire book aloud

1019
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:38,160
and i feel like i'm like oh my god i'm

1020
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:40,000
so intimate with every word of that book

1021
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:42,480
now so um i read it aloud and recorded

1022
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:48,950
she had um

1023
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,200
susan claus this wonderful woman um who

1024
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:53,520
has she's kind of become like a she's

1025
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,960
got native american heritage i guess

1026
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:56,320
she's canadian so they call it first

1027
00:36:02,950 --> 00:35:59,839
nation heritage there and she um

1028
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,950
her friend of hers had died

1029
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:06,880
and so she went and was

1030
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:08,240
and she had a teepee on a property in

1031
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:10,560
the woods in ontario and she was beating

1032
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:11,839
a drum and had a little fire going and

1033
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:13,680
burning sage and she felt something

1034
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,200
pushed the back of the

1035
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:17,839
of the uh teepee

1036
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:19,200
and she thought it was a bear or

1037
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:20,400
something like that she kind of felt

1038
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,599
like it was big and she said she could

1039
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:23,119
even smell something

1040
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:25,040
and so she stepped out of the teepee and

1041
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:27,520
she looked out there and there were five

1042
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:31,119
bigfoot five sasquatch standing and she

1043
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,560
said they were standing like they were

1044
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:34,400
posed for a photograph

1045
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,839
two big ones in the back and the three

1046
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:38,240
young ones in the foreground and like

1047
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:39,599
just like a family portrait they were

1048
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:41,520
standing totally still and she freaks

1049
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,160
out and she goes back in the in the um

1050
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:45,839
teepee pounds the drum really loud and

1051
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:47,520
puts more wood on the fire and then she

1052
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:49,520
eventually peeks out and she sees that

1053
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,560
the same sasquatch are now down a little

1054
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:55,200
further away like they've her senses

1055
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:56,400
they didn't want to scare her so they

1056
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:57,599
moved away and they were still standing

1057
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:59,760
in that same frozen

1058
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,720
pose

1059
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,640
so she runs to the house

1060
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:04,560
she wants to tell her kids and as soon

1061
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:05,760
as she opens the door the kids are like

1062
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,720
mom mom there's like these black shadow

1063
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:10,320
demon things flying around the house and

1064
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:13,440
she's like oh my gosh she's she's

1065
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:15,280
you know she gets some sage and she does

1066
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,800
a little ritual and she burns sage and

1067
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:18,079
runs from room to room and she's like oh

1068
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:19,520
my god this is so strange i can't tell

1069
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:20,560
my kids

1070
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:22,400
what i just saw so she runs to find her

1071
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:24,880
husband her husband's in the um garage

1072
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:26,960
where she's got a woodworking shop there

1073
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,240
so she goes open the door and the door

1074
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:30,000
is locked he never locks the door and

1075
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,320
he'd actually propped something into the

1076
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,240
door so that the door was closed so he

1077
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,079
had to come and not only unlock it but

1078
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:38,240
pull like this wood that had like locked

1079
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,599
you know prop the door closed and he was

1080
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:41,040
like what is going on there's these

1081
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:42,880
black shadow beings in here these things

1082
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:44,000
are flying around there's things looking

1083
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:46,000
in the windows he was totally freaked

1084
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:47,599
out he was like oh my god i can't tell

1085
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,640
him either

1086
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,400
so she steps away from the garage for

1087
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:52,320
just a second kind of she literally says

1088
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:55,040
she prays to god for an answer

1089
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,720
and as she does

1090
00:38:02,710 --> 00:37:58,560
she looks up and there's a triangle

1091
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,720
craft hovering above her driveway

1092
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,240
and it's and then she says it's even

1093
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:06,560
like splitting out in and out of reality

1094
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:08,320
a little bit

1095
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:10,160
now there's no owls in this story she

1096
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,000
has other she has plenty of other voices

1097
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,839
owls and i said you know like what was

1098
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:15,119
going on in your life at the time and

1099
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,400
she said oh my god i was seeing so many

1100
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,400
owls that summer and that's how we met

1101
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:20,640
with with through

1102
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:22,800
owls and and this story because i when i

1103
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:23,920
heard that story i was like oh my god

1104
00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:25,200
there's got to be an owl connection

1105
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:27,280
there somewhere and and the connection

1106
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:28,640
basically is that she had been seeing a

1107
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:30,720
lot of vowels that summer and has also

1108
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,720
in her own personal experiences had a

1109
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,079
bunch of

1110
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,680
paranormal events with owls often

1111
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,119
involving death

1112
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:39,359
yeah her owl stories involve death yeah

1113
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,800
and and

1114
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:42,960
so this is so yes my sense is that

1115
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:45,200
there's this grand

1116
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:47,599
wheel right and every giant spoke of the

1117
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:49,440
wheel you could put a little label on it

1118
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,880
this comes from a guy following ray

1119
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,320
hernandez who had this vision and i'm

1120
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:54,720
just paraphrasing what he said which i

1121
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:57,760
think is a tidy way to sum it up and one

1122
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:00,560
you know one spoke of the wheel says

1123
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:02,240
you know um

1124
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:03,760
ufo accounts the other spoke of the

1125
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:06,079
wheel says uh

1126
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,760
shamanic visionary experiences the other

1127
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,599
one says the near-death experience the

1128
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:11,359
other one says out-of-body experiences

1129
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,720
the other spoke says um has a

1130
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:16,640
meditative experience other one says

1131
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:18,960
psychedelic drugs and somehow they're

1132
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,839
all

1133
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:21,119
connected

1134
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,720
you know we can only look at one spoke

1135
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,720
at a time that's all we can focus on but

1136
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:26,160
all those spokes are connected to a

1137
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:28,400
center hub a center axis

1138
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,680
and that's

1139
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:31,200
where the mystery is like what's that

1140
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,560
that's what i want to know what's going

1141
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:34,880
on at that center core hub that's

1142
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:37,280
generating all these these these

1143
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:39,119
associated

1144
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:40,240
phenomena you know you have a ghost

1145
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:41,280
researcher they don't talk to the

1146
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:42,480
bigfoot researcher the bigfoot

1147
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:43,760
researcher doesn't talk to the ufo

1148
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:45,760
researcher you know so we've got this

1149
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,640
these disparate disciplines

1150
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:50,240
and but i think they're all got some

1151
00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:52,560
core source

1152
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:55,119
well you know it doesn't surprise me i

1153
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:56,720
you know this is something that i've

1154
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:57,680
been

1155
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:01,760
for years now

1156
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,160
uh this type of connection to a

1157
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:06,240
different type of phenomena you know

1158
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:07,520
it's interesting

1159
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:10,800
and i forgot to mention this uh not long

1160
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:12,880
before

1161
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:14,560
uh

1162
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:18,800
and this was

1163
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,760
maybe

1164
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:21,760
the year after my wife had passed and i

1165
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,520
had seen these owls and such

1166
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:27,760
i was re and i didn't mention anything

1167
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:29,920
at that time i wasn't mentioning any of

1168
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:32,160
this to anybody

1169
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:33,760
i um

1170
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:35,920
i started receiving

1171
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:36,839
little

1172
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:39,839
stone altotems in the mail from

1173
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:41,440
different people

1174
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:43,440
don't know why

1175
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:45,920
i received three of them

1176
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:49,839
different people different people

1177
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:52,160
so i took each one of these owls and put

1178
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:53,760
it in a

1179
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:56,240
leather little leather bag

1180
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:57,680
and i

1181
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,599
i carry them with me i have them with me

1182
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,119
right now and you know there's another

1183
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:03,280
thing that you had written in your book

1184
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:06,319
that i thought was very interesting when

1185
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,960
i received these owls

1186
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,880
i put a piece of

1187
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,240
moldanite

1188
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,800
motivite in each one of them

1189
00:41:18,829 --> 00:41:16,880
and you you're

1190
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:18,839
the person in your book

1191
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,000
allison she mentioned motive like it

1192
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:24,000
kind of blew me away when i read that

1193
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:26,000
the other day

1194
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,359
that was that was um i think it was

1195
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:28,800
laura bruno

1196
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:30,079
okay

1197
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:32,079
and she was she

1198
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:34,000
just because so like these stories get

1199
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,720
so

1200
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:36,160
knotted up where she

1201
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:37,040
she

1202
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:38,319
um

1203
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:40,319
was given a moldavite pendant but she

1204
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,920
said she had such a strong reaction to

1205
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:43,680
it she had like it like

1206
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:47,280
it she couldn't wear it and then she had

1207
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,000
a um

1208
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:52,240
like basically she was in the

1209
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:54,720
toilet paper aisle at the grocery store

1210
00:41:59,190 --> 00:41:57,440
and she slipped and fell into a shelf

1211
00:42:00,829 --> 00:41:59,200
and like went boom boom boom and fell

1212
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,839
down the shelf on her and landed on her

1213
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:03,520
butt right she said it hurts so bad that

1214
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:05,520
she had like this kundalini awakening

1215
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:07,839
from slipping and falling and then she

1216
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,560
see

1217
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:10,800
she put the multivita voice in her head

1218
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:13,760
that said where the maldivite pendant

1219
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:16,000
and and um

1220
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:17,599
and then she wore it for a month and she

1221
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,119
heard this voice in her head that said

1222
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:22,000
the multivite pendant has done its job

1223
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:24,319
i'm paraphrasing from memory but yeah so

1224
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,760
that yeah that's very interesting and

1225
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,079
moldavite if i is a

1226
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:30,240
is a it's from a meteorite that landed

1227
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,920
somewhere i want to say

1228
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,760
something like that czechoslovakia yeah

1229
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:35,520
so yeah uh

1230
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:37,520
and what is so here's like literally

1231
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:39,520
it's something from outer space right

1232
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:42,960
it's and it's very rare i mean uh a very

1233
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:45,839
small piece it costs you a fortune i

1234
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:47,040
mean you know

1235
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:49,040
but i happen to have two

1236
00:42:54,309 --> 00:42:52,079
three small pieces and something told me

1237
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:54,319
to put each one of those pieces into one

1238
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:57,200
of those bags and when i read it in your

1239
00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:58,560
book i thought

1240
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:59,920
oh my god

1241
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,920
there's another connection something

1242
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:03,920
else mike has written that connects to

1243
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,599
what happened to me

1244
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,680
and you talk about the kundalini right

1245
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,760
rising you know basically

1246
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,599
you you've talked about that twice i

1247
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:13,040
think in the book

1248
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:15,599
where that has been brought up

1249
00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:18,480
and yeah sometimes in the book yeah and

1250
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:20,480
i i just thought that was amazing i

1251
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,240
really did you know

1252
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:24,480
i had also started

1253
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:27,680
shamanic journeying at this time

1254
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,720
and uh i was just starting to get into

1255
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:32,400
shamanic journeying

1256
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:34,160
because i wanted to find what my power

1257
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:35,680
animal was

1258
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:37,040
you know even though i've been having

1259
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:39,599
all these connections with owls and

1260
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,839
you know i i never even dreamed that i

1261
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,680
had a connection with and i went through

1262
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:45,359
the shamanic journey

1263
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:52,950
well that so now this is this you didn't

1264
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:54,160
tell me that i don't think you mentioned

1265
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:56,000
the shamanic journeying before no i

1266
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:57,520
didn't because it happened after you

1267
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:58,880
talk to you

1268
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:01,920
because this is like this is this is

1269
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:05,520
so owl and the sh and shamanism like

1270
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:07,599
like i feel like that could be its own

1271
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,400
big fat book you know owl shamanism

1272
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:12,960
and the connection there there's so

1273
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:15,599
many stories between owls and shamans

1274
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:16,400
and

1275
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,480
so shaman is a funny term right so

1276
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:20,880
there's like a like um

1277
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:22,720
angus you know there's

1278
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:25,520
there's there's shaman-like activities

1279
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:27,680
right so i think i would consider

1280
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:30,880
like reiki healing sorry shaman like ex

1281
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:31,680
you know

1282
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,800
think the definition of shaman is

1283
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:37,200
exactly said that shaman

1284
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,319
has to do something to benefit

1285
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:42,079
the village the tribe you know the

1286
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:44,800
neighbors his friends his his his

1287
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:47,280
community and and

1288
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,240
to

1289
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:50,640
he does it by journeying

1290
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:52,160
whether through psychedelics or whether

1291
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:53,359
through meditation or whether it's

1292
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:55,599
through rhythmic drumming but he does

1293
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:57,040
this journey and then you come back with

1294
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,319
an answer

1295
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:00,160
that's the story of the owl too the owl

1296
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,480
is a messenger it flies to some of the

1297
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,960
realm and that's the metaphor for owls

1298
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,400
flying in the dark

1299
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:08,319
all right so i'll fly in the dark that's

1300
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:09,760
ancient man must have thought that was

1301
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,800
amazing and and that turned into flying

1302
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,319
to the land of the dead flying to the

1303
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:16,079
land of the ancestors flying to the land

1304
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,160
of the gods and then returning with a

1305
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:20,480
message now that's my whole story starts

1306
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:22,480
off with

1307
00:45:25,589 --> 00:45:24,079
seeing an owl hearing a voice in my head

1308
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:25,599
that says this has something to do with

1309
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:26,800
the ufos

1310
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:28,960
and my life changed like my life has

1311
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:32,319
completely flip-flopped from that event

1312
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:34,480
where now i'm just i've got i cannot

1313
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:36,400
tell you how much time you spend every

1314
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:39,359
day answering emails or getting back to

1315
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,800
people or trying to archive these

1316
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,240
stories and

1317
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:44,720
it's been and i mean you know what am i

1318
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:46,079
telling you you know exactly what i'm

1319
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,760
talking about you know you you're you're

1320
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:49,680
living it too you're we're doing we're

1321
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:51,040
essentially doing the same thing with a

1322
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,480
different you know slightly different

1323
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:54,880
focus

1324
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:57,280
yeah i mean

1325
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,200
i don't know i mean i i it's something i

1326
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,680
didn't expect you know and

1327
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,240
what started it i don't know i mean was

1328
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:06,640
it because you know you know

1329
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:09,119
like uh something telling me that

1330
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:10,960
you know something was gonna happen to

1331
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:13,760
my wife eventually

1332
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,319
you know and it turned into this these

1333
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:19,440
ailing encounters and experiences

1334
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:20,800
then to

1335
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,960
the fact that people started sending me

1336
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:24,800
totems

1337
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:25,599
and

1338
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:27,920
then i decided well you know i wanted to

1339
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:31,200
learn shamanic journeying because i was

1340
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:32,720
you know wanted to get into healing

1341
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:36,240
somewhat and then it turns out that

1342
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,319
through the shamanic journey my power

1343
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:40,720
animal turns out to be in an hour

1344
00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:43,440
so two figures i mean

1345
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:45,920
it's it's strange and

1346
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:48,560
but you know it it's part me doing this

1347
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,319
as long as i've done it

1348
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,200
the connections between all these weird

1349
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:54,960
phenomena

1350
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:57,359
i mean i i guess it's you know it's just

1351
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,000
part of everything i mean i think that

1352
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,240
this is just something else that

1353
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:05,440
connects a lot of this together

1354
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:07,040
and i think that that's a symbol i think

1355
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,400
the owl is a symbol now here's what i'm

1356
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:09,680
going to get i'm going to

1357
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,960
i haven't talked about this yet and i'll

1358
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:12,640
just tell this here but i went through a

1359
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,720
hypnosis session recently

1360
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:16,079
and um

1361
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:17,359
and i'm going to the stuff i'm not going

1362
00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:18,720
to talk about because i haven't really

1363
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:21,359
fully processed it yet and i don't quite

1364
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,599
believe it and um but here's so one of

1365
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:25,839
so it was with yvonne smith

1366
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:28,240
and this is in los angeles and she's a

1367
00:47:31,990 --> 00:47:30,880
she's a hypnotherapist who specializes

1368
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,000
in

1369
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:34,880
uh abduction abductees right

1370
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:37,440
and you know so in one sense you know

1371
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:38,800
a friend of mine kind of said well if

1372
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:39,839
you go to her you know what you're going

1373
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:40,800
to get

1374
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:44,079
and i said well sort of and and and he

1375
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:46,240
was implying that you know like you

1376
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:47,520
you're going to hear the story that gets

1377
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,880
generated from

1378
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:50,480
from this type of

1379
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,640
hypnotherapy but at the same time she's

1380
00:47:56,309 --> 00:47:54,640
a very soft-spoken

1381
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:56,319
sweet

1382
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:58,720
compassionate woman and so i said listen

1383
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,839
in the middle of this thing i want you

1384
00:48:03,430 --> 00:48:01,280
to throw in

1385
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:03,440
what do the owls mean just put that in

1386
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,400
there somewhere when i'm under the

1387
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:06,319
hypnosis thing so she did it halfway

1388
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:07,599
through she said you know and what do

1389
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:12,630
and this is under hypnosis and i just

1390
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:14,960
blurted this out i said the owls don't

1391
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:18,079
mean anything the owls are unimportant

1392
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,359
the owl

1393
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,440
and this took a long time to get out i'm

1394
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:23,280
saying it nice and smooth here where i

1395
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,440
can you know but hypnosis trying to

1396
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:27,520
transcribe a hypnosis

1397
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:29,440
session is deadly dull because there's

1398
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:31,839
these long long pauses between

1399
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,440
everything so

1400
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:36,240
but i said the owl is unimportant

1401
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:37,839
the owl doesn't mean anything the owl is

1402
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:40,720
a symbol the owl is a symbol that is

1403
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,119
thumbtacked to a door

1404
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:45,440
the door is what is important

1405
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,160
we are in a claustrophobic hallway on

1406
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:51,040
one side of the door

1407
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:52,880
you open that door with the owl on it

1408
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,960
with this symbol of the owl the door is

1409
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:56,480
important the owl is not important on

1410
00:49:02,950 --> 00:48:58,880
the other side of that door is this

1411
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,630
and i thought like even in the moment

1412
00:49:07,270 --> 00:49:06,000
like i'm under hypnosis and i'm like

1413
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:07,280
just blurting this stuff out i'm not

1414
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:08,960
thinking about it i'm just like and i'm

1415
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:11,040
like going yeah like i've you know you

1416
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:12,240
write every once in a while when you

1417
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:13,359
write something you get kind of that

1418
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:16,240
little right on this sounds good and i

1419
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:17,760
was right in the moment in the hypno

1420
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,960
like laying on the couch there i was

1421
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,880
like yeah baby this is i got this is

1422
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:22,079
good stuff

1423
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:25,040
um but so that was a really nice way to

1424
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,480
look at it you know the owl is

1425
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:28,160
unimportant it's the

1426
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:30,880
symbol that's on the door the door is

1427
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:32,960
what's important

1428
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:35,680
so that that is a very pleasant and tidy

1429
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:38,319
way to sum that up

1430
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:40,960
now in in title of the book you

1431
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,079
mentioned

1432
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,640
the words deeper reality

1433
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:46,640
now

1434
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,200
is this spiritual or is it something

1435
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,280
different

1436
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:53,440
well it certainly could be

1437
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:55,119
you you know you're like you got one

1438
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:57,119
foot across the spiritual line when you

1439
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:58,240
say something like that what i'm

1440
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:59,839
thinking is you know what it actually

1441
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,240
was i when i wrote the book

1442
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:04,559
i had the like the working title was

1443
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:08,000
owls ufos and consciousness

1444
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,160
and when the book was pretty much done

1445
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:12,240
i went through and i did a little word

1446
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:14,160
search for the word consciousness it

1447
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:15,599
didn't really show up i didn't really

1448
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:17,119
say it that often it's not in there it's

1449
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:18,240
not in the book i don't talk about

1450
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:20,640
consciousness at all really

1451
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:22,160
and um

1452
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:24,240
but i do i did talk about a deeper

1453
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:26,559
reality and the deeper reality would be

1454
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:31,430
there's i said it earlier there's like a

1455
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:33,680
grand chessboard

1456
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:36,480
and and someone there's something or

1457
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:38,240
some energy or some

1458
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:40,160
whether it's god or the gods or whatever

1459
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:41,599
term you want to use

1460
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,400
or the aliens

1461
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,480
or the spirit entities or the you know

1462
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:48,079
the angels whatever term you want to use

1463
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,520
is is kind of stage managing this grand

1464
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:53,040
chessboard

1465
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,880
and that's whatever's going on where

1466
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:56,880
that stage managing is going on it ain't

1467
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,440
here we're here in this physical world

1468
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,760
there's some bigger reality

1469
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,520
that takes place there and so some of

1470
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,760
these stories just get so overlapping

1471
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:07,680
and they look back on each other in this

1472
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:09,760
way that is so

1473
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:13,200
improbable and could not be random

1474
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:14,079
and

1475
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,359
what i was left with

1476
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,680
was for me

1477
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:22,319
the details of these stories

1478
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:23,839
are

1479
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:25,119
this is for me

1480
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:26,800
for me they are proof of a deeper

1481
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,160
reality it might not you know i'm

1482
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:30,480
certain of scientific pragmatists that

1483
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,520
that would

1484
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,119
um would not

1485
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:35,440
go down that road but for me it's proof

1486
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:37,920
of a deeper reality

1487
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:40,319
is spiritual sure yeah you're you're got

1488
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:42,079
one foot in the spiritual you know

1489
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,680
people reality might be a physicist

1490
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:45,359
might be able to define you know a

1491
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:46,800
multi-dimensional universe in a

1492
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:49,200
different way than a than a than a you

1493
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:50,880
know

1494
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,549
but why owls

1495
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:02,400
out of all this

1496
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:04,640
all the different things

1497
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:07,680
uh creatures on this earth

1498
00:52:11,829 --> 00:52:09,760
why owls

1499
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:11,839
that question

1500
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:15,920
over and over again i put in italics in

1501
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:17,200
the first book i did a little word

1502
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,720
search and she said why owls question

1503
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:20,480
mark boom

1504
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:22,319
and so i came up with four answers i

1505
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:23,520
should be able to do this off the top of

1506
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:24,640
my head i don't want to grab the book

1507
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:26,880
off the shelf the first one would be

1508
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,160
owls

1509
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:30,160
are an alarm clock

1510
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:33,280
they are there to wake you up okay so

1511
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:35,119
that's symbolic right there's obviously

1512
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:36,559
an alarm clock and an owl are two

1513
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:37,680
different things but an owl plays the

1514
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:39,520
role of an alarm clock i had that

1515
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:42,079
experience in the mountains

1516
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:45,119
with that with my friend seeing three

1517
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:46,960
owls two different nights four days

1518
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:47,920
apart

1519
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:50,400
they that woke me up i'll tell you it

1520
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:52,800
woke me up to a deeper reality like i

1521
00:52:57,430 --> 00:52:55,200
recognized in the moment the second time

1522
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:57,440
especially this was not normal this was

1523
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:58,559
something

1524
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,720
far too bizarre

1525
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:02,079
and there's all kinds of synchronicities

1526
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:03,839
to tell that story properly takes get a

1527
00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,960
half hour um the second

1528
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:08,400
reason would be

1529
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:12,240
the owls are here to announce initiation

1530
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:13,040
um

1531
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:14,559
and this is

1532
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:16,319
you know that i have a lot of stories

1533
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:18,480
especially shamanic initiation

1534
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:19,599
about people going through shamanic

1535
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:21,440
initiation where owls will show up you

1536
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:23,040
know that's so strange i haven't said

1537
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:25,040
this but i think i have

1538
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,200
i have four accounts

1539
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:29,359
of owls showing up

1540
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,559
in

1541
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:32,480
a shaman's house

1542
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:34,079
they don't know how it got there

1543
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:35,599
like they walk into the room and there's

1544
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:37,040
an owl in the house they don't know how

1545
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:38,079
it got there

1546
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:39,920
i mean obviously any number of things

1547
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,119
could have flown but they were like no

1548
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:43,040
the windows were closed the chimney was

1549
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,359
closed the fireplace was closed we don't

1550
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:47,920
know how they all got in here um

1551
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:49,440
four accounts like that and these people

1552
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:51,280
are all shamans i don't i mean that to

1553
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,640
me

1554
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:54,559
that and pull on those threats that's i

1555
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,520
don't know what that leads to but um

1556
00:54:01,270 --> 00:53:59,119
so so

1557
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:01,280
uh i'm jumping ahead so shamanic

1558
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:04,160
initiation is where you where you get

1559
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:05,839
that so and the other one is the owls

1560
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,720
and archetype right so there's a deeper

1561
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:10,480
meaning for owl

1562
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,119
embedded in our psyche embedded in our

1563
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:14,720
or either our subconscious or our

1564
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:16,160
collective consciousness there's a

1565
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:17,839
there's a meaning that we can't

1566
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:19,839
articulate but we know in our heart and

1567
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:20,800
soul

1568
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:23,280
in a very deep place in an owl when it

1569
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:25,280
all shows up it's it's kind of

1570
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:26,400
it's a

1571
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,359
the owl is the key and we have a little

1572
00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:31,920
lock that the owl can unlock in our

1573
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:39,670
i gotta do this now i can't remember

1574
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:41,680
i'll remember this in a second anyway so

1575
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:42,880
um

1576
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:44,880
uh but that's

1577
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,119
yes so the question why owls that's a

1578
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,680
that's a very important question to ask

1579
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:51,280
i don't have a good answer i have to

1580
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:52,640
kind of dance around it with these other

1581
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:55,520
answers yeah

1582
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:57,280
well it's it's fascinating i mean you

1583
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,119
know

1584
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,440
i've asked myself the same thing and of

1585
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:03,440
course i know you have and

1586
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,839
i have no real good answer for it there

1587
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,760
must you know i don't know if it's

1588
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:09,920
because you know the owls are the owl is

1589
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:11,839
supposed to be wise

1590
00:55:17,589 --> 00:55:15,520
why is the owl so wise why is the owl

1591
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:17,599
mean these so many different i mean you

1592
00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:18,480
know

1593
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:20,799
when you go back to sumerian religion

1594
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:21,520
and

1595
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,960
lilith is with the owls why is why are

1596
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:26,640
the owls with her

1597
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:28,160
you know this

1598
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:30,079
supposed demon

1599
00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:33,760
or you know the first woman supposedly

1600
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:35,839
what was that all about i mean you know

1601
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:37,680
i you know so

1602
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:40,160
i have myself looked into al's

1603
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:41,760
more deeply

1604
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:43,520
but i tell you the more i look the more

1605
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,760
confused i am but quite honest with you

1606
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,680
and same with me i'm like

1607
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,839
look i mean i'm totally baffled i'm more

1608
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:51,040
baffled now

1609
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:52,079
than i was in the beginning because

1610
00:55:55,349 --> 00:55:53,440
what's happening now is i'm getting like

1611
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:55,359
people are like you get you get story

1612
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,720
after story after story i've got some

1613
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:58,079
amazing

1614
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,200
stories

1615
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:01,359
i'm flooded like i can't keep up i did i

1616
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:02,960
actually had to create a little form

1617
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:05,119
letter that said you know thank you for

1618
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,760
contacting me sadly i'm so overloaded

1619
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:08,960
that i have to answer with this form

1620
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,000
letter i hate sending that back i lo i

1621
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:14,160
much prefer to give each person a little

1622
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,200
personal

1623
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:17,440
attention but i just cannot keep up with

1624
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:19,040
it and they're all owl stories and

1625
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:22,079
they're all worthy of their own

1626
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:24,160
novel exactly you know these are

1627
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,720
powerful important human experiences and

1628
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:28,720
my so here's what i argue in the second

1629
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:32,640
book is that these experiences with owls

1630
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:34,559
your experiences without my experience

1631
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:36,240
as well especially your with your

1632
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:39,359
journey your shamanic journey

1633
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:40,960
my sense is that

1634
00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:42,799
you know i people tell me these weird

1635
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:44,319
stories with owls like oh my god this

1636
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:45,680
all showed up at this perfect moment it

1637
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:48,240
was synchronistic it had this thing and

1638
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:50,000
they're not all with ufos some might be

1639
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:53,440
with other powerful life events um death

1640
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:55,839
or shamanic initiation or yeah those

1641
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:57,760
kind of so

1642
00:57:02,309 --> 00:56:59,760
my sense is that people all throughout

1643
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:02,319
human history had these stories

1644
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:03,760
those

1645
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:06,880
seeds

1646
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:08,079
emerged

1647
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:10,240
the mythologies now the mythologies

1648
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:12,799
don't all match up right so right

1649
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,960
the mythologies from the

1650
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:16,720
indians and the desert southwest are

1651
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:19,040
different from the the the natives in

1652
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,400
you know in

1653
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:21,599
quebec

1654
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,880
um

1655
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:24,720
so

1656
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:27,280
but there's a subtle thread that and

1657
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:28,799
death is one of the things that seems to

1658
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,960
be universal with all else now owls has

1659
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,480
come out at night and

1660
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,400
night and death and that's

1661
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,760
i don't think it's too much of a stretch

1662
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,520
to go down that road but

1663
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:38,960
um

1664
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:41,599
so but i argue that these these stories

1665
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,920
are part of the human experience they

1666
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:45,520
are the genesis

1667
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:46,640
of the

1668
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:48,160
mythologies that arose now those

1669
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:50,000
mythologies are all in books on shelves

1670
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,280
and and

1671
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:53,119
you know people

1672
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:54,720
studying this kind of thing i'll treat

1673
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:56,240
it very academic and it's like this old

1674
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:59,200
thing that's long gone and but

1675
00:58:02,789 --> 00:58:00,640
you know we live in a world without

1676
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,799
mythology now in a way right we've

1677
00:58:07,589 --> 00:58:04,400
replaced that with science and being

1678
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:07,599
practical and pragmatic and stuff but i

1679
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:09,440
i'm saying that the stories are still

1680
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:11,040
happening people are still having these

1681
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:17,270
so mike how can people um

1682
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:19,040
read about your research and how can

1683
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:21,280
they get your books

1684
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:22,960
well you can so if you the easiest thing

1685
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:25,599
to do is you can type in ufos and owls

1686
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,720
into google

1687
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,720
and and my name is going to be the first

1688
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:31,280
thing that comes up in these

1689
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:33,920
15 things that come up so um

1690
00:58:37,030 --> 00:58:35,920
and then uh so any if you're anywhere in

1691
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:37,040
the world and you want to you have an

1692
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:38,319
experience with ufos and owls you're

1693
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:40,000
going to find me i'm like two mouse

1694
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:42,559
clicks away and um so you can go to you

1695
00:58:47,829 --> 00:58:44,240
can you can find me that way you can go

1696
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:47,839
to my we can go to mikecleland.com

1697
00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:49,680
and which which i don't want to use that

1698
00:58:53,670 --> 00:58:51,440
for much that's i just got that domain

1699
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:53,680
name and but the core amount of my

1700
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:54,880
research is on a site called

1701
00:59:02,069 --> 00:59:00,750
that's

1702
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:02,079
hiddenexperience.blogspot.com and i got

1703
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:04,160
a lot a lot of stories there and then if

1704
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:05,599
you just look online and you can go

1705
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,880
right to amazon and look up the

1706
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:09,280
messengers owls and the book will come

1707
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:10,799
right up

1708
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,400
well mike thanks for

1709
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:14,799
joining me tonight um

1710
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:17,200
i hope we can talk a little more than we

1711
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:19,200
had before it's been about two years

1712
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:21,599
since we talked the last time

1713
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:24,480
uh maybe we can talk again in the near

1714
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:26,000
future

1715
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:28,000
yeah and this this the shamanic thing

1716
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,599
has been at the core of my present

1717
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:31,839
research so when you drop the the shaman

1718
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:33,680
bomb there i was like whoa

1719
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:36,880
this is like this is exactly

1720
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:38,079
like how do you say you know when you

1721
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:39,440
when you get when you go down the river

1722
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:40,559
you know you just follow the current

1723
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:42,319
just like you hurt

1724
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:43,599
don't fight the current if you're on a

1725
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:45,200
little bro boat or something and that's

1726
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:46,400
where i'm at i'm like i'm not fighting

1727
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,000
the curtain it's all leading me down

1728
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:50,480
this shamanic thing so um when you said

1729
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:53,200
that i was like wow this is like this is

1730
00:59:55,349 --> 00:59:54,160
this is

1731
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:55,359
right in line with everything i'm

1732
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,559
finding so

1733
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:58,000
well i'm quite sure we'll be talking

1734
01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:59,599
soon then

1735
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:01,520
great let's just gab at one point just

1736
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:03,760
just shoot we'll we'll just we don't

1737
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:06,160
have to record it or anything so

1738
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:08,559
it sounds good thanks again mike

1739
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,400
great this has been a wonderful delight

1740
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:12,400
thank you so much

1741
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:14,480
now before i go allow me to leave this

1742
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:15,920
with the listeners

1743
01:00:18,829 --> 01:00:16,799
uh

1744
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:18,839
the american landscape photographer

1745
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:21,599
environmentalist uh ansel adams once

1746
01:00:26,309 --> 01:00:23,040
stated

1747
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:26,319
we all move on the fringes of eternity

1748
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:28,720
and are sometimes granted vistas through

1749
01:00:33,430 --> 01:00:30,559
fabric of illusion

1750
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:33,440
many refuse to admit it i feel a mystery

1751
01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:36,720
exists there are certain times when as

1752
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:38,480
on the whisper of the wind there comes a

1753
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,280
clear and quiet realization

1754
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:43,280
that there is indeed a presence in the

1755
01:00:46,150 --> 01:00:44,160
world

1756
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:46,160
a non-human entity

1757
01:00:51,750 --> 01:00:49,760
that is not necessarily inhuman

1758
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:51,760
so i thank everybody for listening to

1759
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:53,920
the show and for your support

1760
01:01:05,050 --> 01:00:57,050
good night and have a great weekend

1761
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:13,910
[Music]

1762
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:42,090
so